Episode 70: New Orleans Saints Season Outlook with Chris Rosvoglou

Scott Vicknair, injury attorneys, we fight for the win. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the Overruled podcast, brought to you by the Scott Vicknair Law Firm. This is your host, David Vicknair, and I have my Saints color shirt on today. I have my HooDat socks. Yes, it is a thing. I have HooDat socks on today because we have a really awesome guest. The Saints reporter and podcaster and coverman extraordinary from Due Crew Media, Mr. Chris Roz… Boglu. I think I butchered it, Chris. Did I? No, no, no, no. That’s perfect.

All right, I did it. Welcome to the Overruled podcast, Chris. Thank you for having me. I’m excited. All right, so for everybody who doesn’t know, Chris is essentially the man in Saints world. You should check out his podcasting online with Due Crew Media. Look him up because he is one of the best guys covering the Saints. And so today, we’re going all Saints and I’m just gonna jump right in, Chris. Let’s start with the big news that they just named, Spencer Rattler as starter, starting quarterback. I’m curious your thoughts on why Kellen Moore and the staff ultimately ended up going with Rattler over Schuck. Yeah, there was a lot of chatter behind the scenes that Tyler Schuck wasn’t really ready for week one. And you look at the Saints schedule, it’s kind of a really tough gauntlet out the gate. You got Arizona coming up early, that’s not going to be easy. San Francisco, week two can be really tough. Seattle, at Seattle is just, it’s a really tough environment, especially for a rookie quarterback who you feel might not be ready for prime time just yet. And then it’s like, okay, you get through that three game stretch.

Well, here’s the Buffalo Bills, and you know that game could turn into a track meet with Josh Allen and the way they’ve played on the offensive side of the football. So I think for the Saints, you just feel like they’re going with the quarterback who’s more ready at the moment. I still think it’s a tricky situation though, because if Rattler were to struggle and you put in Schuck, let’s say four or five weeks from now, does it feel like you wasted four or five games of a potential sample size for Schuck? I think that’s a question mark. But look, Rattler was the leader in the clubhouse going into training camp. He was the leader in the clubhouse going into the first preseason game. And at the end of the day, well, the gap wasn’t huge, let’s say, I think New Orleans wants to make sure they get out on the right footing here. If you put Schuck in week one, and he struggles, I think it’s harder to go from Schuck to Rattler than it is Rattler to Schuck. And for all those reasons, you get to develop him behind the scenes for at least the next couple of weeks. I think the Saints just think long term, it’s the better play. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense too. Along the same analogy you just made, because it is really simpler. If like they put Schuck and start him, and then right, then he has a, you know, he stumbles out of the gate. Well, then all of a sudden you have all these people in the fan base calling for Rattler to get in, and it beats up Schuck’s confidence. So to me, it makes a lot of sense. Do you think, is it your opinion that it is like a short term play and it’s like Spencer’s opportunity to show that he should be the starter? Or that they really believe he’s that much better. Because when you look at the numbers and comparing both of them in preseason, they’re very comparable. Spencer’s numbers are or a little bit better than Schuck. And probably more of a running threat. So they’re pretty comparable. They, they invested a second round pick in Schuck, so you’d think and they see something in him.

But I guess, you know, if Spencer takes it and runs with it, it’s gonna be tough to take him out, right? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, I love that you mentioned the preseason numbers. I think the funniest thing is, you know, social media, everyone’s kind of debating which side of the fence they’re on. And then you just present the numbers and you’re like, that’s kind of the same quarterback at this point, minus, give or take a couple of rushing yards. But look, I think that’s the thing and that’s what makes it very tricky. Is if Rattler plays well, or well enough that you’re like, okay, we really can’t bench the guy right now. Then how long do you go before Saints fans actually see Schuck? And, you know, does it equate to winning? What if Rattler looks good, but the team is still struggling? It’s, it’s not great out of the gate, and before you know it, the Saints are picking top five, top six, and they don’t know if Tyler Schuck’s any good yet. I just, that’s what confuses me. Are they going to get stuck in no man’s land where they don’t have an answer?

That said, I, I trust Kellen Moore and everything he has said, he’s really kind of backed up. You know, before training camp started, I remember he’s like, hey guys, I’m gonna give Jake Gainer, you know, some QB one reps, because I’m gonna go with three quarterbacks out the gate. And Jake Gainer got some QB one reps and everyone’s like, well, what happened? Well, Kellen Moore told you what he’s gonna do. He said yesterday, it’s, it’s not a short leash for Spencer Rattler. Like they’re gonna see how he does in the starting role. So, I gotta imagine, what, what’s the number? Is it, is it five games? Is it six games? What’s, what’s a fair amount of games that you can start Rattler for and if you don’t see improvement, get to say, okay, now we’re going to Schuck. If we want to play it safe, I say at least five to six is probably the number. Maybe it goes over depending on how Rattler looks. You know, I don’t think it’ll be two games. Rattler struggles, they say, okay, enough of that because at that point, well, at that point, what’s two weeks? You could have just started Schuck in the season opener.

So, I do think he’ll get some runway here. And I do think for Rattler, it is the opportunity of his career because if he doesn’t play well enough to hold off Schuck, then I don’t know if he ends up starting elsewhere at any point in his career. And on the flip side, if he is able to hold off Schuck, who knows? He’s got some weapons around him. You have a really innovative offensive play caller, maybe this can be the moment for him. Although the odds aren’t necessarily in his favor. I think that also, the thing about the preseason numbers is that you do have to put them in some level of context, right? At the level of the NFL, the quarterback position has played at such a high level. Like there is something to be said about the necessity and the need for the quarterback to have a consistency of a receiving core. Not just the slot or outside receivers, but their tight end, line, running backs. And, you know, in preseason, it’s a mix and match of freaking everybody. Like they’re not getting any consistent reps. You have a mix of like Rattler playing with ones, Schuck playing with ones, Rattler playing with twos, Schuck playing with twos. And so that does, doesn’t it affect in some way their performance? And so it is not necessarily apples to apples in some regard. Isn’t that fair? It absolutely is. I think, you know, preseason, you see a lot of the success that these guys had. Well, it’s like, okay, but that’s probably not happening where they’re gonna be in those personnel groupings. You know, Schuck struggles, Rattler struggles.

We’ve seen them in moments where they’re getting protected by second, third string offensive lineman. And you’re like, okay, well, that guy’s not going to probably, or at least you hope, is not going to be on the field with them. The wide receiver group, you know, I look at Schuck’s final drive of the preseason. It was a really good drive, 12 plays, 77 yards, end up finishing with a rushing touchdown. You know, there’s a throw where he’s got Cedric Wilson in prime position to have an easy, you know, receiving touchdown. He ends up dropping the football. You know, stuff like that’s not gonna happen. You know, the one thing I will say though about the preseason, when we talk about personnel and who they’re grouped with, that kind of concerns me is Rattler’s best moments and Schuck’s best moments, all came against second and third string defenders. It came in the second half of games. We didn’t really see anyone in the first half of a Saints.

Game. Just kind of lighten it up. You know, I did a little film review earlier this week. There was a moment where Rattler had Shaheed on a on a deep post that if he hits him and stride, it’s a touchdown. Maybe we talk about this whole situation differently and say, you know, Rattler really played well against the Broncos. The numbers were there and the offense put up, let’s say 10 points in the three drives that he was leading the offense. But, yeah, look, it definitely plays a factor. Alvin Kamara played maybe a couple snaps in the preseason. So having him out there is gonna be huge. You know, Shaq and Rattler didn’t get a lot of time in the preseason to throw to Olave and Shaheed. They pretty much got, let’s just say a quarter each, and that’s being generous. So all those factor in for sure, and, look, there’s some players for the Saints that haven’t even played yet and you hope at some point this season they’re gonna make an impact. So, yeah, it definitely matters.

Okay, where is Taysom Hill? I was the other day I’m like, where is he? And how does he given, his injury status? Like, how does he from your perspective, play into this quarterback, role because I mean, I maybe I don’t know if you saw it, but Drew Brees may have like sprinkled some extra controversy on this a day or two ago when he retweeted like a social media post about Taysom Hill, believing he can still play quarterback in this league full-time. So like, how does he play into this? Where is he? Like I just need to know. Feel like he’s like on an on like an FBI list, they put him in like a endangered, danger person community and they’re hiding him.

Look, I’m gonna be honest. I would feel the same way if I didn’t see him have a very like lengthy post-game handshake with Sean Payton. I’d kind of say the same thing because we’re all kind of waiting for updates. In late July, there was a moment where he was working off to the side in training camp and a lot of us were like, oh, okay, maybe we’ll see Taysom, maybe October. He’s still gonna need time obviously, it’s a tough knee, tough knee injury, that he’s coming back from. The thing is the fit. I think for the Saints, they’ve had every option if they wanted to cut the cord to do it. They actually financially could just get out of the Taysom Hill deal now that it is post June 1st, and feel pretty comfortable about where they are from a salary perspective. The fact that they haven’t, makes me think at some point they’re gonna want him to play a role, really in the tight end room because that is a group right now. If you kind of rank Saints positional, you know, groups and what’s the weakest, tight end might be there. Juwan Johnson, obviously, they paid him handsomely, but everyone’s still kind of waiting for him to emerge and be that guy. You know, they have a backup in Stol who’s a good blocker, but he’s not exactly a threat in the pass catching game. And other than that, the Saints don’t really have a whole lot of depth there. So, I kind of think they’re holding out hope that he can give a little bit of a lift to that tight end group.

I’m sure they feel the same way about Foster Moreau and what he brings to the table. I’m so fascinated though, to see what happens with Taysom Hill, though, in Kellen Moore’s system because the one thing Kellen Moore loves is a mobile quarterback, and I don’t think Taysom Hill’s gonna get that opportunity, despite, you know, Drew Brees’s thoughts and not to say that Brees is wrong, I just, I don’t think it’s gonna happen. But man, I wouldn’t mind to see that kind of QB power, that run option game return with Taysom Hill, even if it’s for four or five snaps a game, because I think Kellen Moore can get the best out of number seven. So we’ll see, but right now we’re kind of waiting in the dark. My thing is if we see him by, I don’t know, let’s say a little bit before mid-season or around mid-season, I’d take that as a win because right now, it’s it’s been pretty much crickets about when he’ll play.

Yeah, I just think he’s like a unique talent and I don’t, especially like you, like with Kellen Moore’s system with Kellen Moore, I really want to see how he uses him and what he does with him because I think we could do more with him at the quarterback role. Not necessarily as a full-time quarterback, but a lot more with him. I don’t think people understand how fast he is. He is like incredibly fast. And, you know, some of the quarterbacks you’re seeing, do have the most success in the league, Lamar Jackson, but he’s also a full-time quarterback. I just, I would really like to see what Kellen could do with him. So I’m, I’m praying for him to get back sooner rather than later. But you bring an interesting point up about his salary cap implications and when they could have cut him. Do you believe that Kellen Moore wants to keep him long-term?

Long-term, I don’t know. I think for this year though, the Saints have to have some type of plan because once, literally once it was post June 1st, I had my eye on Taysom Hill’s situation and I’ve been wondering, like, will they cut him? Will they trade him for a very, very low pick? Like, I’ve been waiting for that to happen and every kind of checkpoint that the Saints have gotten to where they could have cut bait with Taysom Hill, they haven’t done it. I don’t know long-term, truthfully, I, I wonder if Taysom Hill has kind of missed the boat, unfortunately, of where the NFL is moving on quarterbacks because from an athletic standpoint and the blend of power and speed that he presents, I don’t think other quarterbacks really have that right now.

And, man, I’d love to see, you know, what a, let’s say 30-year-old Taysom Hill in the prime of his career can do with a full season at his disposal. But I think, look, Kellen Moore values offensive playmakers and the minute he got to New Orleans, he said, how can I take guys and put them in the best positions to succeed? Instead of making people kind of just adjust to his system, he wants his system to adjust to the skill players. And I don’t think the Saints have a weapon as versatile as Taysom Hill. And because they have some lack of depth at tight end, because even look, even as a running back, I know that’s not what we’ve really seen him, but we’ve seen him at times kind of line up in an H-back and I, I think for with Alvin and Kendre being the top two guys, they lack a little depth. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s healthy, they want to kind of hand off the ball to him a couple times too. So I think you’d see more of a versatile playmaker type position for Taysom Hill than we will at quarterback, but I don’t know if it’s long-term. I think this might be his final year in New Orleans if he ends up playing a couple games this season.

Gotcha. Okay. I want to shift gears to the offensive line. Boy, am I concerned. As I counted, correct me if I’m wrong here. Young, Saivion, I don’t know if I’m mispronouncing his name, I never say it right. Penning and Clapp, all injured? Are those all injured right now?

So yeah, Saivion’s out for the year. Clapp’s out for the year. The Saints got, Landon Young’s injured, you know, got a lot of banged up injuries there.

So, let’s start with the depth issues. I’m terrified of the depth at that position, that we’re in with the offensive line. And you know, at the beginning of the season when everybody was saying four, you know, three, you know, a bit beginning of getting ready to go into the season, I was like, you know, I look at this roster and I’m like, I get why people are like saying we’re gonna have a tough season, thinking, thinking we’re gonna have predicting, at least, you know, everything’s played on the goddamn field at the end of the day. Like everybody can say, like, we’ll see how the season plays out. Line it up and in between the lines, but, you know, I’m like, I look at the roster, I’m like, we, got some youth up in the defensive backfield. You know, I don’t hate our roster, but I get the concerns because we have two unnamed people at quarterback, basically, who’ve never proven anything in the league, and the league is totally a quarterback league. And then our offensive line depth issues have now crept up before the even season started. And my prediction and thoughts on how we’re gonna do this year has like drastically dampened. I mean, am I, am I wrong to be this concerned about our depth on the offensive line because I think

that’s the most concerning part about this team personally. No, I think it’s it’s right on the money. Offensive line about two months ago was the position group for me that I was like, hey, I think they could swing the season for the Saints in a positive way. I, you know, I looked across the board, you got first round talent all amongst the starters and then the depth is what I like too, because you always got to account for injuries. And the problem is for the Saints, the three guys that I was thinking about outside of Dylan Reids for the depth, so three out of four, they’re off the board for the season. And it just seems like for the Saints, when they did make a trade yesterday, obviously add some depth via the Cowboys, but it’s you’re you’re about an injury away from going, okay, well, that’s a hole that we just can’t correct for the offensive line and, you know, pair that with the fact that Trevor Penning’s banged up and even though he will play this year, you know, who’s turf toe can be tricky.

Like who’s to say that’s one where he returns and then all of a sudden reaggravates the injury and he’s out for four to six weeks. So I think for the Saints, it’s a concern. We also have to just be fair and go off of, you know, last year, unfortunately, Eric McCoy missed a lot of time and we saw when he missed games, the offensive line just completely was a shell of itself. So I think there’s still positives here, like I think the offensive tackle duo of Fuaga and Banks in the preseason was stellar. It’s everything that I want them to be for the next five to seven years of being those bookend tackles for the Saints. But the interior of the offensive line was a concern going in and what we got out of the preseason was we got Caesar Ruiz struggling, Trevor Penning going down. Will Clapp out for the year, and, you know, Nick Salvaterry out before that. So it is a concern. I think that if you told me all five starters were healthy for 17 games, I think this is going to be an above average unit for the New Orleans Saints. But playing in the trenches is just absolutely brutal, and I don’t know if this group will be able to get through 17 games, especially given the track record for a couple of guys in the starting lineup. So it is a concern and it and it pains me to say because, you know, coming into the into training camp and into the preseason, this was probably the position group I was most excited about. I really thought they could do some damage and now I’m just hoping they could stay healthy.

Yeah, you’re speaking my language. I was feeling the same way and, I do think you hit like some bright points for Saints fans and me in particular to be excited about is like I do think that Banks and Fuaga have the possibility to be one of the best tackle duos we’ve ever had, at the most important position in the NFL. I mean, we saw what Fuaga, the way he played last year was incredible in a position that he was basically out of place in as a rookie. And so you get to move him over to right tackle in his natural position and draft a talent like Banks. And I’m just, it’s very rare to have young talent of this caliber at the two tackle positions in the NFL. And I just think we’re really, really solid there for a hopefully a long time. Barring health issues and so I’m really, really excited there and I was feeling the same way about the line. And then we have all these preseason injuries and I’m like, oh gosh, it’s just going to be tough to overcome, I think. Given that, you know, Caesar Ruiz will probably be struggling with injuries this season, same with McCoy, they get hit over and over and over again, every play.

And so the depth just has me really concerned. I want to pick your brain a bit Chris about the defensive backfield. We’ve seen a lot of changes here with Tyrann Thomas retiring. Talk me through as well as at corner, we no longer have Paulson Adebo, Morten LaMore is no longer on the team. I do think personally, just overall, we really needed to get some more youth in the defensive backfield. No offense to Tyrann. He’s had an incredible career and an incredible player and athlete. But, you know, how are you feeling about the defensive backfield? I’m really excited to watch this position group this season. Yeah, it’s funny because I’m, I’m so like polar opposites for the cornerback room and the safety room. You know, I’ll start off with the with the good. Like the safety room, I, I know that everyone’s upset about Tyrann Matthew moving on and obviously he’s a Louisiana legend and that doesn’t change. And I and I love that he was able to go out on his own terms. I think that’s all you can really ask for as an NFL star or just a star athlete in general. And for him, like he goes out and you still look at last year and you’re like, okay, he was still very respectable player for the Saints. But man, I’m excited about this safety group. I think this is the first time in a long time that the Saints can sit there and say, we have three good safeties.

Because Justin Reed, I think, you know, a lot of people kind of questioned, well, why would the Saints go sign Justin Reed, they’re they’re rebuilding. Just because they’re rebuilding doesn’t mean they can’t go address a position of need, even if it’s a high price free agent. And I think Justin Reed brings great championship pedigree. I think he’s in the prime of his career. So you get him for the next three years, you don’t have to worry about whether or not his production will drop off. And I think what the Saints wanted to establish from the jump with him was getting back to stopping the run and having a safety that can get down in the box and make sure that he cleans up any mess that wasn’t taken care of by the first or second level of the defense. And, you know, the fact that you lose Tyrann Matthew and immediately go out and get Julian Blackman, who, you know, I can’t stress it enough, I think this will be the guy that maybe Saints fans won’t talk about going into week one. And I wouldn’t be surprised after the first month of the season, everyone’s like, well, wow, we got to make sure they keep him long term. Because it’s a player over the last two seasons, he had seven interceptions with the Colts. And he spent all of last season with a torn labrum. And he said it affected his production. It happened in week one, he was trying to play for a new contract, so he didn’t sit. And now the Saints get him on a one-year deal where he’s going to try to re up his value again, but this time he’s healthy. And I think you’re going to see kind of a mean streak between those two. And eventually, you’ll see Jona Sankar in a in a primetime spot to show what he can do. Because, you know, this kid is just flying up the board for the Saints in terms of confidence.

You know, preseason, especially the second week of the preseason, that was about as good of a game you’ll see from a rookie DB. And he’s just so smart, he’s really gotten along well with Blackman and Reed in the in the clubhouse. And, you know, I love that trio of safeties for the Saints. I think they can do some damage. And Brandon Staley loves being able to have interchangeable DBs and those guys do that. Corner, I, I think a lot of it is going to bank on Alonte Taylor. If he’s healthy, my concerns ease a little bit because I think Alonte Taylor is a really good playmaker and despite having a rough preseason finale, I still think Couleid Mcintry is going to have a pretty solid year too. He looked way too good in camp against Chris Olave to just feel like that’s going to go away because he lost a couple battles to Cortland Sutton. You know, I remember Marshawn Latimore would have a great season, but every time matched up against Adam Thielen, like that was his kryptonite. It just didn’t work. And, you know, some matchups don’t work out. And maybe for Couleid, just a bigger receiver and Cortland Sutton, that wasn’t the case. And, you know, he loses that one-on-one more times than wins it. But to me, a lot of it’s on Alonte because if Alonte is not healthy, Couleid slides into that one spot. And all of a sudden, everyone kind of has to move up the pecking order. And that kind of scares me. So, as high as I am on safeties, because I love that the Saints got three legitimate weapons there at that spot. Corner to me, you got to have Alonte Taylor healthy. And if that happens, I think the rest will fall through. But look, it’s a talented group. You know, we talked about O-line and being concerned. My concern.

About the safety room is it’s not that high. I think this could be a really, really decent unit for the Saints. Let me ask you, Chris, about Stallberg, did he make the team? He did. Yeah, and that’s one of the underdog stories for this team for sure. Yeah, I mean, he was a standout for me and I love to watch, like in the preseason, because I like to see like what the coaches are looking for is who’s just going to make some plays, right? And that guy just made some freaking plays and made some hits and stuff. So I was like, I don’t know if he’s gonna play at all, but like he’s definitely gonna probably make special teams, right? And I don’t know much about him, but he was a standout to me in the preseason. Yeah, no, he, you will see him on the field for at least special teams, like this was a guy that I think if you go into the first week of the preseason, you’re kind of doing your roster projections, I don’t think anyone had him on the projected roster.

But when you continue to do that week by week, play well, you’re gonna make some noise for yourself. So I think we’ll see him on special teams for sure, and then who knows? I mean, linebacker, that’s a good group for the Saints. I’d say that’s the position group I, I might feel the most confidence about because you had about three to four players in the preseason that really showed out. And, and all being young talent. That excites me. Yeah, and, and now that we’re talking about linebacker, I have to ask you about Demario Davis. You know, I was reading about him the other day. I was blown away. I don’t know, I think he’s number, I think he’s in the top 25 of defenders all time in the NFL and individual tackles. And he had, I believe his record, on solo tackles last season, they have 130 tackles last year. How does this guy not age, number one? And like, do you expect him to have like another incredible performance this season like he did last year? Yeah, at some point, the wheels got to fall off completely, like I, that’s what I keep thinking, especially because, you know, we talked about before, offensive line being so physical. I mean, Demario is like a heat seeking missile, throwing himself into the trenches every two seconds. So, he’s the type of guy that, he’s gotten better with age. His, his Saints career is just truly phenomenal.

You know, I, I think you’ll, the days of him being all pro are probably gone, but you know, I watch him in the preseason finale and I go to rewatch it again and his sideline to sideline speed still there. His energy after every play is still unmatched and, I think he’ll, he’ll still have a good year. And I think because the Saints feel like there’s better depth around him this season, maybe there’s a little less onus on his plate. You know, Pete Werner is a guy that I think had a, the last two years has just been a shell of what we’ve seen early in his career. He’s been moving incredibly well at camp, strong preseason, even though it was brief snaps for him, but still looked good in the moments he was on the field. If he plays well, it’s less off of, you know, Demario’s shoulders, and I think you’ll get the best version of him. So either way, I still think Demario is gonna play well. I don’t know if he’ll still play at an all pro level. I, I think those spots might be reserved for, you know, a Fred Warner of the 49ers or Roquan Smith, but I, I think that for, for Demario, I don’t see that drop off. You know, no knock on Cam Jordan, but there’s been, we’ve seen the drop off with Cam, Cam’s no longer a star. He’s really a rotational piece for the Saints. I still think Demario is gonna play well. And frankly, you know, we mentioned Dary and Matthew going out on his own terms of still being a good football player. I have no doubt in my mind, that’ll be the case for Demario as well. Yeah, I think he is gonna go out on his own terms and he’s one of the NFL players who are my favorite, and I just because he’s on the Saints, he’s just an incredible person and leader and I just, to me, I’m amazed at how hard he has been able to work at and achieve, at like you said, middle linebacker, maybe the most physical position on the entire field. And for him to be doing what he’s doing in this league at this level at his age, I think speaks levels to his performance and the off season and what he does to prepare himself.

He doesn’t really get injured that much. I mean, at the most physical position on the field, I’m just amazed by the guy. And if and when you watch him talk about Kellen Moore. I want to shift now and get your thoughts on our new coach because what really jumped out to me in the off season was this interview that Demario gave because when it’s him, I listen to it more than if it was somebody else. And I mean, he must have gone on for 20 minutes talking about Kellen Moore and it was way more than he had to. It wasn’t like some PR word salad. And I mean, it made me very hopeful for him and his staff and the future of the organization based on solely what Demario Davis said in that interview, which is like, I’m looking for anything. What are your thoughts on Kellen Moore? What has been your impression of him? Like tell us, should we be excited? I think we should, but I want to know your thoughts. Yeah, absolutely. I think Saints fans should be excited. I, I don’t know if people really can grasp how broken this team felt towards the end of last season. You know, you got the coaching change at, at, you know, in the middle of the year, and, you know, Darren Rizzy comes in, Rizzy shook things up, had them excited the first couple weeks, but, you know, at some point the Saints had so many injuries that, you know, you’re playing a Monday night game against the Packers and you got guys that shouldn’t really be on the roster being forced to make plays and you’re getting blown out in the, in, you know, under the prime time lights and it was a rough, a rough finish for the Saints. And there was a moment where, you know, even the vets in that locker room kind of look around and it’s like, okay, you know, it’s gonna take you a little bit of time to fix this.

And for Kellen Moore to already change the, the, the locker room vibes. I think he did a really good job emphasizing team bonding, you know, on Saints days off, they would do something as a group and I think that’s important, especially for a team that’s kind of in a rebuild. You got a lot of young talent, and it’s important for them to gel and, you know, you mentioned guys like Demario, having him, having Alvin, having Cam, like those guys are really the glue guys for this team. And, you know, not only that, Kellen Moore, he’s got some things thrown his way in his first year as a head coach, first off season as a head coach, you know, he came into this expecting Derek Carr to be the starter. And, you know, the Derek Carr situation takes a left turn out of nowhere, he ends up retiring and, you know, you’re at the drawing board, figuring out, okay, we’re gonna draft a quarterback, we’re gonna figure things out. And, look Kellen has done everything his way right now. And, and that should excite Saints fans because I know there’s a, there’s a little bit of a notion on social media that, the Saints are a little stubborn in their ways and they are to a certain degree. I, I can’t even deny that. But I think Kellen Moore has really kind of inflicted his own voice on the Saints so far, like even roster cuts, right? Like they just parted ways with two 2023 draft picks. You know, that, that to me is a telling thing, like, hey, we’re gonna do things our way and we’re gonna see which guys are able to kind of fit and be good pieces for us. You know, they move on from J. K. Dobbins in the quarterback room. They move on from Isaiah Fosky, who was a second round pick. Was that the biggest? Was that the biggest one that you because to me, it seemed like that was Isaiah Fosky was the one that people complained about the most online. It’s like, why is this guy? I mean, seem nothing bad to say about the guy, but like he doesn’t make plays. Like why is he on the roster? Is what I would see online a lot about him. That seemed to be the one that the fanbase is really like ready for us to move on from. Right. Look, I, you know, the minute he got cut yesterday, the, the, you know, looking on Twitter, it, it, you would have thought, you know, was Christmas for some people. Like they, they were going nuts. And people are like infatuated with that. Right. It’s, I and I feel bad because it’s someone’s livelihood, obviously. But you know,

that a production and that’s what it was. He just didn’t produce. Fadil Diggs a seventh round pick for the Saints this year, has shown more at defensive end in the preseason than we’ve seen all three years of Fosky. So, you know, that’s a credit to Kellen Moore though. Like his staff evaluated guys regardless of draft positions. Said, hey, can you make plays for us or not? And that’s why, you know, a guy you mentioned, Isaiah Stalbird’s on the roster and a guy who was a second round pick and Isaiah Fosky isn’t.

Yep. Love it. Okay, one last position group I wanted to chat with you about is defensive line. We just, I just, I feel like our defensive line has gotten a lot better. We’ve, you know, I think Nathan Shepherd has played well for us. I really like Carl Granderson. You know, Cam is, you know, clean and closer to retirement. I think everybody knows that. But he’s still like a solid team culture person and a good role and positional player for us. Talk through that position group with to expect from that group. It just, it seems like it’s going to be much improved this year against the run then what we saw last year.

Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, I think a lot of this defensive line is going to hedge on Davon Godchaux and whether or not he’s healthy. You know, I go back to that preseason finale when both the Saints and Broncos played their starters. Run defense has been a concern for the Saints for the last two seasons. Godchaux just, he just kind of plugs up the middle of the defense in such a great way and that takes pressure off the rest of the guys, right? Like, you know, Bryan Bresee has become an excellent pass rusher at defensive tackle. His run defense needs some work. Well, to have a guy in Godchaux who’s just primarily there to stuff the run, some pressure off of Bryan Bresee, who I think will have a nice year this year. Chase Young. Excellent camp. Just an outstanding camp for him.

I think he probably looks in the best shape of his career right now, than ever before. And Saints paid him. He had a really nice finish to last season, career high in pressures, career high in QB hits. You hope that carries over and actually becomes production in terms of sacks. Like can he get to nine and a half, 10 sacks on the year? I think it’s possible. And if Chase Young’s doing his job, it makes life easier for Carl Granderson, who also had a nice camp. And I think the one thing the Saints love about him, he’s a high motor guy. You know, I went back, I was watching the film. The pre it’s a preseason game and this dude is sitting there trying to rev up the Superdome crowd and I, I absolutely adore things like that. So, I think the Saints defensive line has decent enough depth. And are they missing that star power? Absolutely, right? They don’t have a T.J. Watt or a Micah Parsons or a Nick Bosa that they can really just hang their hat on. But look, I think if they can stop the run, they have enough to get towards the quarterback, whether it is with Chase Young or Carl Granderson, whether it is maybe using Demario Davis on a blitz up the middle. So, it’s all about getting you getting back to making teams. I don’t want to say one-dimensional, that’s a lot to ask for, but making sure teams aren’t imposing their will in the run game. Because when you go up against Atlanta, when you go up against Tampa Bay this year, they’re going to try and run the football a lot. And if the Saints can get back to kind of plugging up that, I think it’ll open up a lot for this defense.

Awesome. Okay. Two last questions I have for you, Chris. I could talk about the Saints all day, so I need to stop myself. First, record prediction for this year and thoughts on what you’re going to see this year.

Yeah, you know, record prediction, I, I’ve kind of gone back and forth so much of it for me is like, well, what’s the quarterback play? Because I, I’m I’m in the group of think of people thinking that like, I think this roster is better than most people think. Like, I think a lot of everyone, you know, people evaluate the NFL and I see the Saints ranked dead last every single time and I, I’m like, I think that’s a little unfair. But I get it. There’s an uncertainty at quarterback. I think for me right now, I’m more in the camp of maybe they go four and 13 and four and 13. And, to me, that’s not a record Saints fans want to hear. I don’t necessarily think it’ll be a bad thing for this team. I think they’re going to start off rough. I think there’s going to be some adjustments. The first month of the schedule does them zero favors. But when they get to November, things are going to lighten up a little bit. And I think what I want to see for New Orleans is week by week, Kellen Moore’s guys are buying in. You’re seeing development. I always go back and think of Dan Campbell’s first year in Detroit. That was a broken team. He goes in there and the record wasn’t great, but they were competing really, really hard week by week.

They got better towards the end of the season. And then after a really rough year where I think they won three games, they win nine games the next year, get to the NFC Championship game the third year. And obviously they’ve become now a perennial contender in the NFC. You know, it’s, it’s minor steps. It’s seeing those young guys develop. It’s seeing guys like Chase Young have close to career years. It’s seeing, you know, Banks and Fuga be the tackle duo that Saints fans just believe they can be and rightfully so. Like, to me, that’s what I’m looking for. Getting your quarterback would be an added bonus. I think if Rattler plays well or if Schuck plays well, to me, that would make this season just an absolute win for the Saints. If they can walk out of this year going, hey, I think we have our franchise guy. It’s one heck of a win for this team. So, you know, I’m not going to be as concerned with the win loss, although I do think it’s going to be on the on the rougher side of things. I, like I said, I think four and 13 is probably where I’m sitting at the moment. But I think there’s small victories the Saints can take this season that could carry over to 2026.

Yeah, that’s some great thoughts because it doesn’t, you know, Rome isn’t built in a day and we’re going through a transition that we’ve put off for like three or four years since Drew retired. And so, I’m I’m being a little bit more optimistic. I’m at six and 11. So I really think there are some things that I do, I really believe in Kellen Moore and what I’ve seen, the players say about him and watched in the preseason. I really think that, we’re going to do a little bit better because of how solid he and his staff are.

And because we have, I’m with you, like I know we have a lot of issues, we do, we’re not like a winning team yet, I don’t think, hopefully I’m proving wrong. But, I think this is a solid roster. It’s not a, a one win roster and I just know having been a Saints fan for so long, the leadership in that room of Demario of Cam Jordan of Alvin, like those people take a lot of pride in the team and in what we put on the field. And I just don’t see, even if we do stumble really hard out of the gate, that like there’s not going to be leadership in that room. I really think there will be. But I do want to know what Miles thinks. Miles, why don’t you jump in here, will give us a record prediction. Okay, so I’m like David, long time Saints fan, born and raised here. I’m kind of citing and David and I talked about it the other day. And I know you can’t make people not try, I’m not saying to do that. I just would, I would be as a die-hard Saints fan, more upset if we won six games than four. Like last year, we got really, I think a little bit screwed over. Our record should have been a top five pick. And just everybody else was so bad that we ended up what, we were the 10th pick where we not the ninth? Ninth. Yeah. Ninth. And I kind of agree with David, I think we, I looked at the schedule early this morning. I think I see five. I think I see five wins there. And that’s just me on the optimistic side. But I’ve agree with everything you all have obviously been listening. And I have one last question for Chris before your last one, if you have it.

Chris, you brought up the pressures, and that was the most frustrating thing for me last year. Chase Young got there a lot. Is there something I’m missing? Like why couldn’t we just finish the play? A lot easier said than done, quarterback super protected. I, but I was just seeing since you watch all the film and I mean, I really like your insight. That’s what made me so mad. Chase Young was athletic getting there, we just couldn’t finish. Yeah, I, you know, part, I, I think it’s twofold. I think one, I know it sounds like a little bit of a cop out, but I think the Saints are kind of prone to this more than other teams. I, you know, I watched on, on Saturday, there was a moment where they had Bow Nix kind of like dead to right and he kind of gets out of harm’s way, just, you know, hits his check down. All of a sudden it’s a 20 yard game when it should have been an eight yard loss and, you know, you think, oh, here we go again. I, I think part of it could also be the quarterback play and today’s game. Like I, I went back to last year and I looked, Chase Young’s best performances and where we really saw that finish was against guys like Kirk Cousins. He, he wreaked havoc against the Falcons last year and you think about it, Kirk’s really not getting out of a jam the way, you know, a more, a mobile quarterback kind of will. Like, Saints play the Cardinals week one, would not be surprised if it looks like they got Kyle or Murray and in no man’s land and all of a sudden he kind of escapes and either throws it away or picks up a 15 yard run down the sideline. Like, I, I think part of it is just the quarterbacks in today’s game. It’s, it’s just so tricky. I think that’s why you look around and, you know, guys like Jaden Daniels immediately have success because as a defender, it’s just like, you know, the rules are going to benefit them and, you know, an added bonus is they’re just an incredible athletes.

It’s just tough to stay in their, in their way. But, you know, if I, if I’m going to offer a little bit of optimism about Chase Young finishing the play because he’s right there. He talked about losing, I think it was like five to six pounds this off season. He says the lightest he’s ever been in his career. So, who knows? Maybe that, maybe that gives that split second instead of it being a quarterback pressure, he actually comes home and gets a sack and, and the Saints fans feel a little bit better about what he’s doing from a production standpoint. Yeah, that would make me so much happier. I don’t know why. That just made me so cause I get it. We, we’re going through a lot and all that, but I’m like, man, he deserves better than the sacks he got. Chase Young lost that weight to make you happy, man. That’s right. That’s it. He text me this morning. Chris, what are your, last question I had for you, your long-term thoughts on the franchise. I think in the last three or four years, we’re all like, don’t like any of it’s like zigzagging between Dennis Allen and then Darren Riley and, it seemed like we never knew where we were going. It just kind of feels to me, like with Kellen and his staff, and Derek Carr retiring, which he passed up on millions of dollars to do us a solid for the salary cap. Thank you, Derek Carr. Which he didn’t have to do. It just feels like we’re on a better path. What are your long-term big picture thoughts on the organization and the team moving forward beyond just this year? Yeah, long-term. I, you know, obviously things can change over time, but I, I feel okay about where this team is. I, I think, you know, I love that they took a swing with a guy like Kellen Moore, who, you know, if there is a little bit of unknown to it, but I like it. It’s about time that the Saints are that team that takes a shot on a young coach, the way the Rams took a shot on Sean McVay and things of that nature.

So, I’m excited about the head coach. I really do think Kellen Moore is getting more and more comfortable, being the guy in control, being in New Orleans, seems like he’s really embraced the community and I, I know if you do that, fans will love you back very easily. And I think fans will be patient with him this year for sure. You know, I, I think there’s still a lot of frustration with the front office. My, my only rebuttal to all of it would be, you know, having a quarterback just, it covers up all of the issues. You know, I, I’m, I’m, I don’t forget three years ago where we’re talking about like the Houston Texans about, man, like this franchise has to be sold and they’re a mess and you kind of stumble into CJ Stroud and all of a sudden, like things look alright, you know, I, I look at San Francisco, you know, any other franchise, you, you, you trade three first round picks for a quarterback and you whiff, like they did on Trey Lance, everyone’s getting fired. They, they just so happened to kind of stumble into a guy in Brock Purdy, who’s kind of bailed a lot of them out and, you know, if, let’s say, Shuck ends up developing into the guy, or we finish the season going, man, you know, once Shuck got in, the offense looked a little innovative, he had a pretty good rookie season. I think everyone’s gonna kind of back off of like how they feel about management because just having a quarterback covers up so many areas because if you don’t have one, you’re not gonna win. I mean, we go back as season ago, Washington, new ownership, everyone’s talking about, you know, the commanders kind of being, you know, a franchise that’s really lost its luster, Jaden Daniels is there, they make an NFC Championship game year one. And so, I, I like where they’re heading with coach. I understand the frustration with management. I mean, this is a team that literally cut two 2023 draft picks, you know, 24 hours ago. And I, I get the frustration with management and I think it’s all kind of warranted.

But I think this is a really nice rookie class that they put together. I think Kelvin Banks is going to be excellent. I think Jonas Sanker is going to be a really good player for them. You know, if Tyler Shuck ends up being a guy and he ends up being a quarterback that you feel like they could start for the next five, six years, maybe more. All those concerns, he’s up and you feel so much better about where this franchise is heading. Yeah, I think some of the stuff that the, the front office has kind of taken has been really Mickey’s own PR stumbles in my own, this is just my opinion. It’s just some of the comments he’s made, he just misspoke. And it’s just rubbed people the wrong way. I mean, I personally played high school football with and was close friends in high school with Mike Prentiss. Mike is a great guy and he really knows the game of football. He’s from a fan, the director of scouting, who’s from a football family. They have a lot of really good people in management and the way I always kind of look at these things when people complain about our management, I’m like, the grass is always greener on the other side. Things could be a lot worse. We could have Jerry Jones. So, I’m kind of like, I get it, I understand the frustrations. I feel like some of it have been PR induced by Mickey’s just verbal comments that have been stumbles.

But overall, I think we could be way worse off in a management, from a management standpoint, you know? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, the Cowboys play in a week and who knows what’s going on with Mica. So I, I totally agree with you. Anyways, Chris, this has been an incredible conversation. I love your show, I love how much you know about the team and the game and, where does everybody go to find you to see all of your, tell them through what you do like pre-game, post-game, like walk us through where do we find, where does everybody find you because to me, you’re one of the, become one of the authorities now online on everything to do with the Saints. Yeah, so, I, I think the one thing that we, we do that we really, really love and it’s and has really kind of built a, a nice community is, so, every game day for the Saints, go over to Bookoo Media’s YouTube page and we have a, a halftime show, the minute, first half ends, we go live. We do about a 15, 20 minute discussion. Anyone has any, you know, thoughts on what happened in the first half, maybe they got to air out some complaints, maybe they’re they’re raving about who played well. We’re gonna let everyone’s voice be heard, get their comments up. And then we have a post-game live stream, usually goes a little bit longer, probably about an hour.

And a half depending on the result of the game and you know, how much there is to talk about. But we also do that on Bokermedia’s YouTube page. We also have some film breakdowns. We’re going to do a lot of rewatches this year. So, you know, every midweek we’ll probably go back to the five, six, seven plays that were the turning points for either a Saints winner or loss. So, we’ll cover that on the channel, and then, people can check us out on Instagram at Straight Up Saints and also, Twitter at RoVogleReport. I’m, I’m sure I’ll have some snarky tweets from here, you know, here and then depending on how the Saints play, so, it should be a fun fall.

Well, thank you so much for being with us, Chris. Revogle. Revogle. I’m butcher your name again with Bo crew media, the authority on the Saints. Chris, really enjoyed talking with you about the team and I’m excited to see how the season goes. Maybe we’ll reconnect after and break it down in the off season. Thanks so much for being with us.

Thanks for having me.

And thanks to all of you for listening. This has been another great episode of the Overruled podcast, brought to you by the Scott Vicknair Law firm. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.

Scott Vicknair, injury attorneys. We fight for the win.

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