Episode 94: The Truth About Legal Marketing Today with Cassidy Lewis

Scott Vicknair, injury attorneys, we fight for the win.

Hello everybody and welcome to the Overruled podcast, brought to you by the Scott Vicknair Law Firm. I’m your host, David Vicknair, without Brad Scott today, but excited to dive into an interesting discussion with one of the, I’m gonna make her blush I think, but one of the most well-known and versatile legal marketers in this law firm space, Miss Cassidy Lewis, who is from Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers in Norfolk, Virginia. Hey Cassidy, good morning.

Hey David, thank you so much for having me this morning.

Well, you’ve already validated our marketing, because my name’s David and the whole.

Oh, you know what, I heard you speak and I remember thinking, his name is not David, his name is Scott, and then I saw your website a little while ago, I was like, oh, it is, I thought you were up there lying on stage.

What an amazing marketing validation by one of the best legal marketers, that you fell into the trap of our entire theme, and then on the bottom you’ve got Miles, because you just got a lot going on.

There is a lot going on, it’s confusing.

Yeah, very confusing, I apologize for that. But Cassidy, welcome, I’m so excited to jump in and talk all things legal marketing, but even if you’re not a law firm, a lot of the marketing principles you work on every day would apply to anybody listening, a company, business, organization. But before we jump into that, tell everybody a little about you, your background, how you ended up becoming, I’m not sure if you’re the marketing director or the chief marketing officer, at Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers.

Sure, sure, yeah, so I am the chief marketing officer, I’ve been in marketing coming up on 18 years, soon to be legal, and I started my marketing career in politics, then worked at some Fortune 500s, had my own marketing shop, and then made my way to legal by happenstance, actually a funny hiring story how I got to Cooper Hurley, but I’ve been here eight and a half years now. I have both my undergraduate and masters in marketing, my masters is in digital marketing, a bunch of certifications, but most importantly a lot of experience, a lot of questions asked and all that jazz.

Tell me a little, Cassidy, about what your title was and what your role was when you started there eight and a half years ago, and how the department has grown, how you’ve grown in eight and a half years, because my suspicion, without even getting into this before the show, is you’ve really elevated yourself and your expertise and skill set while the firm has grown and built up a marketing team that probably didn’t exist when you got there. Can you talk me through that journey?

Sure, so I essentially was the only person, there was somebody when I got here but he left a few months after I was hired, and I was hired with the title of chief marketing officer, I don’t necessarily recommend that for other firms, because like you said, I was probably more a marketing manager with what I did when I started eight years ago. Then I sort of became a marketing director, and now, within these last maybe four years, a true chief marketing officer, because I believe a CMO, while they’re the primary decision-maker on marketing, advertising, and branding, also shifts into really focusing on the growth of the business, I want to know how much money we make every month, I want to make sure we’re efficient, yes we got X amount of cases coming in, but do we have enough people to handle them, that’s sort of that CMO role. So yeah, I did start off with the title, but I don’t necessarily recommend that.

And how, what has the firm done in the last eight and a half years since you’ve been there, is it four times the size of what it was?

So when I got here I think I was the 18th employee, I think we were at like 18 or 19, we’re at 55, pushing 60 now, we had four lawyers when I got here, we have 12 now, and we were at about 2 million, two and some change, and last year I think we hit 13.

Congratulations, so we’ve done a lot.

Yeah, we’ve done a lot.

That’s amazing, and I’m assuming, because you’ve been there so long and the ownership seems to be amazing people, that you feel a certain level of pride about what you’ve done there over the last eight and a half years and where the organization has moved and where it’s headed for the next eight and a half. Can you talk about that, personally and professionally, how you feel given that your work has contributed to all that growth?

Oh yeah, I think A-level players care a lot about not just their work but the growth of the company, and there’s always discussion about how to hire A-level players, but I think part of being an A-level player is having an A-level boss, in the sense that they make you feel like you’re part of that growth, they make you understand how important your role is. Going from essentially a marketing manager to a CMO, I would just be asking questions like, hey, how much money did we make based on this, what’s the time on desk, and I needed to really understand processes from the legal side, and my boss would pop open the hood and sit down and talk to me to make sure I fully understood, and that helped me care even more about the growth of the company. So that’s a big part of being a good CMO, really having an appreciation for the growth of the company and how I, or the marketing department, impact not just the revenue but the ROI, a lot of people get stuck on revenue, I said we’ve got to go look at the bottom, that’s way more important sometimes than the revenue, and that’s a big shift.

I also think one of the things you just said without explicitly saying it is that you’re a consistent, constant learner, another key trait I see in A-players, they always want to learn, non-A-players think they know everything and figure it out within a year or two, and I’m like, there’s a lot to learn, I’m still learning 15 years into practice, I don’t think I’ll ever figure it out. So I see that as a constant trait in them too, they always want to learn and they’re excited by learning.

Yeah, absolutely, and the owners of the firm being constant learners has a big impact on that too, so even you saying, after 15 years I still have to learn, that trickles down, you create a culture of learning.

Well, let me shift gears here and jump away from Cooper Hurley for a second, and talk about the evolving landscape, this could go for a while, so I don’t want to limit our discussion to any particular area of marketing, whether digital, brand, list building, I want to cover it all. Let me start in the digital space, in this ever-changing world of the consumer experience, they click on Google, it’s not a monopoly, but 99% of the time they click on Google, and we’ve got LSA ads, paid ads, both places Google makes money, and the local map packs, which is important to Google for the consumer experience because there are feedback loops on Google reviews. And now we’ve got AI overviews folded in because Gemini and ChatGPT and all these companies are pulling away search, so Google’s trying to funnel it in. In an age where we have all four of those mediums happening above the fold before a consumer gets to any organic links, what are your thoughts on SEO strategy and how it may have changed from five or ten years ago, from the old school, we need to post more pages, more content, more topics, how do you think SEO strategy has or hasn’t changed in this new digital world we’re all growing through?

Okay, so again I’m going to age myself and remind everybody I’ve been in the game coming up on 18 years. When I started, it’s not that SEO wasn’t a thing, SEO was the thing, it just hadn’t trickled down to small businesses as much, right, I come from the buy-all-the-domains era, remember that, buy all the personal-injury-lawyer-new-orleans-near-me.com, and SEO almost didn’t make sense for a while, it was keyword stuffing, pages had to be a thousand, maybe two thousand words, with these intros and this and that, and I kept saying, this doesn’t make sense. I think here in 2026 SEO makes more sense, answer the question, give the user what they need so they can find it on the page, but also so AI overviews or these LLMs can pick it up easier. I also think the customer journey, we thought it was linear, they get in an accident, Google injury lawyer near me, look at reviews, choose the firm with the most reviews or somebody they liked, and then call. That’s just not it anymore, the customer journey, I don’t even know, it’s not linear, it’s a different shape, a hexagon, I don’t know what it is, but it’s, okay, I saw your billboard, somebody told me to call you, I researched injury lawyers on the LLM, I asked a FAQ in Google which presented an AI overview, I saw your name multiple times, I went to your Google business profile, even though I saw your LSA, I went to the business profile, this is what’s happening now. So we have to be much more diligent about creating not just a white-glove experience for our clients but for searchers, for people in this information-gathering mode, making sure we’re giving out information relevant to the user, not just relevant to Google. It used to be my biggest beef with SEO companies, and still is, oh, we need Google to pick up the page, we need to rank, we need to rank, and that’s true, but if we rank and the client gets to the page and there’s nothing of use, or it’s way down at the bottom. So all that to say, I think SEO and how we do it now is becoming much more useful to the user, not just to Google.

That is music to my ears, because I have a strong theory, twofold. Number one, I think you’ve just defined what I call attribution disease. With law firms, I don’t know that we can truly attribute everything anymore, nor is it that important, because at the end of the day what matters is, what did you spend on marketing, how many cases did you generate after you pull out your drops, and you have a true cost per case and compare it to your average fee, that’s the simplest way to attribute marketing. Some things are more targeted, you can attribute LSA ads, PPC, but even those are more complex, like if somebody saw Cooper Hurley’s billboard and only clicked the PPC ad because they liked the billboard, who gets the attribution, the billboard spend or the PPC? So that’s one big pet peeve, lawyers get so caught up in attribution when it’s nearly impossible now to fully attribute everything. And the second piece, I think even I’ve fallen victim to this, thinking SEO is just the scope of things the company manages on the website, but now, I saw a video last week, Gary Vaynerchuk, Miles sent it to me, talking about how YouTube Shorts are going to be one of the top ranking factors in Gemini search. So maybe we didn’t used to think of YouTube Shorts as SEO, but now it is. And that’s not something you have to siphon off to an agency, it’s just, can you stick your butt down once a week and record some videos, like I force myself to do every week, Miles, and get relevant content out there for the consumer’s experience, so when they’re looking for an attorney it’s all out there.

Right, right, it’s, I think SEO is going to a space where it’s not as controlled, we used to be able to do on-page SEO, remember when people used to say that, on-page SEO still exists, but when a user is searching, it’s going to be your public relations, your community building if you’ve done it, your reviews, it’s just much more broad. And it shouldn’t really be, oh, SEO is evolving, there’s merit to that, but there isn’t anything new we should be doing, we should have done all these things before. What is, SEO is dead, now it’s AEO, that’s not true, these things always existed, we should have always done them, if your SEO company told you different they were wrong, that’s the long and short of it. But I’m happy to see SEO is more than just who pays the best SEO company to fill a page with 1500 words, I’m glad we’ve moved away from that.

Amen. And in that vein, how do you, because this is something we’re kicking around here too, and I get this question more often, in the last year, through mastermind groups, from lawyers who are really in it with their marketing teams, how do you, so Cooper Hurley, or Scott Vicknair, we don’t have an unlimited amount of money to spend on marketing, no firm does, I guess Morgan and Morgan technically does, but no firm has unlimited money to allocate. So when you’re making strategic decisions on your marketing budget, has your perspective changed on how much you allocate to traditional SEO, meaning 1500-word articles on your website, and shifted it to other things having more impact?

I guess you could say yes, because now I’m much more intentional about public relations, I’ve done PR before for national nonprofits but I can’t say that’s what I do well, within these last two years we’ve had a public relations company, and we appreciate even more the importance of not just the backlink from the Virginian-Pilot or our local newspaper or site, but how it helps our overall SEO, it has more impact. We’re not producing, I mean we might produce a new page or two a quarter, but really we’re adding on to pages, if anything we’ve gotten rid of pages, hundreds of pages.

And see, that’s been our thesis and theory for the last three to six months, to stop being concerned with new page addition and instead focus pages and cut down and focus efforts elsewhere. Especially, I think, to your point about PR, it probably has a larger impact with search now, it used to be you just get the backlink, but I’m starting to wonder, because all this stuff is educated theories, even for people with seriously high-up connections at Google, but I think local mentions, verified and for good causes, almost have just as much juice for your domain authority as backlinks. Is that a theory you believe too?

Oh yeah, oh yeah, anything, backlinks from a .org, an organization talking about you, speaking positively about you, it was even a theory before I adhered to, I don’t know how strong, that getting backlinks and mentions from organizations in your zip code had more impact and would help your domain rating. There’s a lot, when it comes to local search, there’s a lot of us, from the gutters of Reddit on, that think this to be true, but absolutely, public relations is even more important for local SEO.

Interesting. Okay, so I know at the firm y’all also do brand marketing, if I put it in three channels, though there’s way more than three, but the big three in my mind are TV, billboard, and radio, are y’all in all three of those channels, which ones are y’all currently running in your market?

Sure, TV, billboard, no radio, no serious radio right now, I’d say our third one is brand partnerships, that’s where we spend a good chunk of our local marketing piece, we have a minor league baseball team, we’re the official injury lawyers for the Norfolk Tides, we’ve partnered with Old Dominion, Norfolk State University, and we’re looking at two other universities and some other partnerships in the area.

Okay, and which brand channel were y’all in first, Cassidy, TV or billboard, was there a reason for which one you went into first?

TV, it was TV, and I’m not going to geek out, I’m not going to geek out.

I want you to, go.

No, I get real geeky, I try to say this on every podcast or stage I’m on, marketing is the psychology of the business world, you’ve got to understand the human brain to be a good marketer, it’s not pretty billboards, not pretty social media campaigns, you have to understand the human brain and how it acts and interacts. So when we went into TV I wanted to push, because we get the auditory and visual attributes, where a potential client would see me in 2022, see me in 2023, 2024, 2025, and not need me until 2026. I do not understand or agree with the theory in injury legal marketing that people are at home watching TV, after an accident they see the commercial and then call an injury lawyer, that doesn’t make sense to me at all, I’m not a media buyer, but it just doesn’t make sense. I think TV is a branding tool, not a direct response, PPC is direct response, but TV is a branding tool, it gave us visual and auditory, people remember what they see the most, what they smell the most, then what they hear, that’s why jingles work so well, that’s why we have a jingle. When people come to us they don’t say, oh, you’re Jim Hurley or you’re John Cooper, they say, oh, you’re Cooper Hurley, and they sing our jingle, that’s why we wanted TV, that was our first real big spend, and then after that it was brand partnerships, and last year was our first real big spend on billboards.

Interesting, and I think the strategy behind it matters, and you kind of explained the strategy. My thinking on jingles all along, we have one too, I love it, I get people texting me their kids singing the jingle shooting basketball in the house, it’s like the kids know it, sometimes I find bizarrely the kids remember it more than the adults. It was fun making the jingle, it fits into five-second, 15-second, 30-second spots, you just move it around, everybody knows it, they’ve heard it a thousand times now. And it’s one of those things I always thought, Cooper Hurley or Scott Vicknair, we don’t have the resources of Farmers or Geico or these multi-billion-dollar corporations, they have focus groups they’ve probably spent a quarter million dollars on, and all those insurance companies have jingles, there’s a reason, it’s not a coincidence. But I do find it interesting that you went to brand partnerships next before billboard, my theory on billboards is, if you’re going to do it, you have to allocate enough money because you won’t get a good enough deal unless you buy enough of them. I don’t know if that’s true for your market, but I’m curious why you went to brand partnerships before billboards.

Okay, so I’ll start by saying we technically had like four or five billboards, when I say big billboard spend I mean like a few hundred thousand, we did TV and then four or five billboards, and I wanted to be very strategic about them. We have a lawyer who lives in Chesapeake, he’s out and about all the time, his dad was a Chesapeake cop, his mom was a Chesapeake bus driver, he went to a school in Chesapeake, graduated, he’s our, I jokingly call him Mr. Chesapeake, so I put about five billboards around the places he lives, shops, interacts with regularly, hoping we’d get an increase in Chesapeake cases, and people would stop him and say, are you the man on the billboard, and that’s what he got. And it was because we didn’t have the big billboard spend, let’s say a big spend is 200,000, however we could partner with the Norfolk Tides for my first contract, this is not what I’m paying now, for 10,000, and we got to talk to hundreds of thousands of Hampton Roads residents, we got to put a commercial, a billboard, signage at the Tides stadium, and they got to see it, all in one spot, so I think it gave me exposure to a lot of people for a lot less money. Billboards have other pros because they’re stationary, in one spot, but the brand partnerships did something different for us, and it also showed our residents, we’re here, we’re local, we’re down the street from you, one of our taglines used to be, we’re right around the corner from you. But yeah, that’s why we did brand partnerships before billboards.

Interesting, and I think, learning about the fringes is just following it, one of the things I don’t think I’ve told you, I went on a rant with my marketing team at the beginning of the year, is, I mentioned before we went on air, I’m a huge Ben Glass student and a big believer in list building, and I got a question at a New Orleans Bar Association event from a lawyer who went out on his own a year or two ago, and I get this question every now and then, if you could go back to when you started your practice and change one thing, what would it be? I’ve got a list of about 73 things at this point, but the one most important in my mind at all times is, I wish I would have valued list building immediately from the very beginning and been in a database, even if I changed databases later, or in the future, we can always move the list in because of the solicitation rules, it’s so difficult to market outside a brand to specific geo-targeted people, and it’s just something people overlook. My theory is, it’s not exciting, it doesn’t happen tomorrow, it takes a long time, it’s like going to the gym every day, trying to drink water and eat healthy, nobody wants to do it, but it works. So I know you’re a big believer in it, tell me everything y’all are doing that’s working at Cooper Hurley to have grown and built your list over the eight and a half years.

Okay, all right, so, Miles, we’re going to be here for another three hours.

He’s laughing, he’s got a mic, he can even bite them.

I was going to ask about the billboards, but, all right, so as much as I believe I have a master’s in digital, I always preface it with this, I think we have to decrease our dependency on digital, and this is what I mean, if 80% of your cases are coming from digital sources, that should scare the hell out of you, because Google can suspend your Google business profile like that, you can stop showing in LSAs like that. I’m not telling you not to do those things, they work, and even if you get referred by somebody in your database, the referrer is still going to go check for injury lawyer near me, that’s why we see $687 Google LSA spend, but when we ask them how they heard about us they say, David referred me, why’d you click the LSA. I believe our database is the only thing that differentiates us from our competitors, I don’t really believe there are truly, I’m sorry, I know I’m a marketer, but, oh, we’re the biggest in the state, our lawyers used to say this, anybody can say that. Our true differentiator is the combination of people and our database. So I think there are two sides to it, one, talking to the current people in your database, and two, putting people into your database, those are the two focuses. When you’re talking about people in your database, I talk about a white-glove experience a lot, it starts with your client experience, your intake and client experience, what are the places where you impress your client and overly impress them? If you look at my reviews right now, people say, man, I love those boxes you guys sent, because we look at the customer journey and say, I want to impress them here, and here, and there. This is beyond, I say often, if I ask, what’s your client service strategy, and you say everybody’s really nice, you don’t have a strategy, that’s right, everybody’s nice, what’s the experience every client goes through when they come to your firm, what does that look like, and then after that, even after the case closes, then what, do they drop into your regular newsletter, no, those are your ambassadors, the ones who can speak for David and say he’s the best lawyer in New Orleans.

Absolutely.

So one of the things we do for clients, a year after their case is closed, we send them an anniversary letter, we’re trying to attach a new date, they got into that accident, it was terrible, they remember the date of the accident, well, look, it’s been a year since your case has closed, we’re happy we were able to help you through that difficult time, we pray your life is as back to normal as it could be, just a letter, paying attention.

Yeah, just a close stitch.

But then what client appreciation events do you have, what are you doing for them, but then on the other side it’s building that list, we do vote-for-a-cause, vote-for-a-school, we do monthly raffles, give away TVs, gift cards, gas giveaways, all the things that get people into our database. And again, one thing I think a lot of marketers miss is the personalization experience, they came in through a raffle, you need to introduce them to the firm, tell them how great you are, thank them, the drip campaigns that come with it. We’ve seen amazing things with our database, when I got here about 11 or 12% of our cases were referred by people within our database, Q4 last year we were at 50-plus percent.

It’s amazing, right, and I used you as an example because I think last year you posted something that y’all were over 40% referral of your new case signups, and you’re really getting me revved up, Miles is like, oh god, now she’s got him going, because I’m so into the client experience being unique and different. We’ve stolen the umbrellas from you, I’ll say the nice word is emulation, not stealing.

But all these things you’re talking about matter, and personalize the experience, and last year I think 30% of our new single-event PI cases were referral, word of mouth, and I’m like, look, if Cooper Hurley, a bit bigger than us, spending more than us, can get to 40%, we can get to 40%, we have to get there, because once you increase that referral percentage as a percentage of new cases, you’re also accomplishing something you just hit on, Cassidy, reducing your dependence on random Google algorithm changes that could impact your company’s growth.

Absolutely, absolutely, keep talking to them, you’ll start to see it go up a bit, but you’ll have two months where everything sucks, two months where it’s really great, but I’m looking at getting consistently to that 50-plus percent this year. And it’s so funny, people want to go right into brand, right into the million-dollar PPC spend, and because of the CMO Academy I get to work with some really large law firms across the country, and they’re not doing the client experience, they’re not doing the database, their cost per case is insane, I mean, they’re profitable, but do you know what you could do, you don’t even know what you have. But because we’re able to get our cost per case below 2000, I have more money to spend on the big branding techniques, and, you know, how you do it, your order of operations is your choice, but I have much more money to say, hey, Jim, I want to buy a Cooper Hurley car.

Yeah, so, I want to get to the CMO Academy next, but I have one other follow-up on this list-building topic, because I love stealing a good idea from a smart person, I’ve already stolen your umbrellas, and I love the letter, I’ve never heard that, the letter after the year the case closes, I think that’s very brilliant and smart, but what’s one of your favorite things, I’ll ask you for one and give you one so we can have a double theft, how about that? Your favorite new thing, you may already do this, you’ll be like, David didn’t give me crap, but what’s your favorite thing on the new client experience y’all are doing this year that maybe you didn’t do last year?

Okay, all right, so you’ve got to be careful with this, but we implemented a welcome survey, I, people do surveys too much and clients get confused and think, well, you asked for a review already, did the review. So we don’t do surveys past six months, we do a survey now, it started mid-January, basically, we know what made them call Cooper Hurley, but after they’ve signed up, a few weeks after they’ve talked to their paralegal, we ask questions, what made you choose Cooper Hurley injury lawyers, I probably have 40 or 50 of them, it’s a dropdown, click some of the reasons that made you choose us. A lot of them are saying our intake specialists, and I manage the intake team here too, and I got to show them, this is how important you are, the billboard is cool, but this is you. A lot of times it’s somebody who referred them, another question we ask, if you talked to multiple law firms, and they’ll say yes, then, well, what made you choose us over them, and they’ll say the follow-up, that chase campaign, they’ll say the clear next steps, which is extremely important, we get desensitized, like, yeah, just sign the paperwork and we’ve got it from there, no, they don’t know that. So it’s a really good survey to see the space between what I think matters and what actually matters to the client. Again we only have like 40 or 50 of them, I haven’t talked about it on LinkedIn yet, I want to get at least a hundred or 150 so I can start to give percentages and talk about what a firm can do to really impress the client.

That’s incredibly interesting, I can’t wait to see once you get that bigger sample set what you conclude, because I saw your facial expression at the beginning, and I’m assuming it was the same as mine, because I’m very skeptical of surveys, I don’t love them, especially because sometimes they can be misleading and put you in the wrong direction if you utilize it at the wrong point in the customer journey. But I think the way you’re using them is much less susceptible to giving you false flags, which makes me interested in the results, if you get nothing more than a validation of your new client intake team and a focused importance on clear next steps, which I’m going to be thinking about when I walk out of here to talk to Whitney, who manages our intake and marketing department, then I think the whole survey exercise was probably worth it, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, qualitative, I’m big on research, if I ever quit being a CMO here tomorrow I’d go into marketing research, I think it’s really missing from the legal community, both formal, informal, qualitative and quantitative, it’s really important, so I like them, but I agree with you, you’ve got to be careful about it.

Yeah, well, I can’t renege on my promise, my favorite is our random client gifting, everybody in the firm has a $600 budget, and the only rule is there’s no rules, nobody tells them what the gift is, nobody tells them what to do, each individual team member makes their own unilateral decision on who gets a gift, why, what kind, off Amazon, they order it, send it, pick when it goes out. There’s no rules except we track it, circulate it once a month, our administrative team, so everybody can see who’s spending it, who’s doing it, and clients get, we have gifts along the journey, but this is completely randomized and gives autonomy and decision-making power to everybody on our team, it’s one of my favorite things we’ve implemented.

That’s a fast one, those people, you’ll find that the people who give the most gifts have the most reviews, the highest client satisfaction, if you do a survey they have the highest NPS, they just do it.

I think it’s figuring out how to systematize a randomized thing like that to make the client experience unique and special in a one-off way, not like, hey, let’s send out a thousand Cooper Hurley coffee mugs, that doesn’t hit the same as, hey, I just had my knee surgery yesterday, and my case manager thought about sending me a $30 sunshine get-well box off Amazon that had no Cooper Hurley branding on it at all, totally different impact, right?

Absolutely.

Okay, we can’t go without talking about one of the coolest things you started, the CMO Academy, for those listening who’ve never heard of it, why don’t you tell us when you started it, why, and a little about it.

Okay, that’s my baby, it officially launched last January, but I’ve always done it in some capacity, I’ve mentored legal marketers for probably the last four or five years, and that’s the core of it. I’ve been in a lot of different industries, and when I got into legal marketing I got, closed off, like, it’s all this money, all these things we can do, it’s so competitive, a whirlwind.

Miles is like, no legal marketing experience.

Yeah, I mean, I came in with like nine or ten years of experience, and came in arrogantly, like I know what I’m doing here, I got it, I got it, and it’s like, Jesus Christ. So I created it to help legal marketers specifically understand how we move in legal marketing, understand things like the gifting process, or why LSAs are so important. We started with intake, because intake and marketing have to work together, and we go all the way through, client experience, social media, digital marketing, we do it all. Each lesson has three parts, the strategy, because we’re marketers and understand our whys, the hows, the tactics, oh, we’re going to send an umbrella, and then the KPIs, I’m big on numbers, if you don’t know some numbers, something in there, if you’re not measuring something, something’s wrong, or you don’t know something’s wrong. That’s the mentorship side, there’s also the video side, for the mentorship side I just work with in-house legal marketers, I have to make that distinction because I do get lawyers calling saying I want to do it, I just work with legal marketers, but the video side anybody can get, agencies, lawyers, legal marketers, fractional CMOs can purchase it. It’s the same content as the mentorship but in video form, 63 videos, I put everything I know in there, so if you’re interested in what the client experience Cassidy built at Cooper Hurley is, it’s in the video academy, what do you do for intake, it’s in the video academy. You can go to theCMOacademy.com if you’re interested in learning about either of those.

I think it’s also a testament to the mindset of ownership at your firm that they’ve let you just do this and open it all up, and I’m of that mindset, a lot of lawyers I’m friends with are of that mindset, there’s a lot of people in this business who share sharing, there’s no need for secrets, give me a break, there are no secrets anymore, but I wanted to point out it’s a real testament to the owners there that they’re like, Cassidy, run with this project, you can say whatever you want about Cooper Hurley.

Yes, they do send, and they get referrals to me, then I’m like, well, do I work for the CMO Academy now, no, Bill, no, okay, they get, then I’m like, please stop y’all, if you want me to be a guest speaker, no, I don’t want you to be a guest. It really is that, I’m very grateful I work for a firm that has that abundance mindset.

That’s awesome. Well, this has been an incredible discussion, is there anything we haven’t covered you want to let everybody know? First, where do they find the CMO Academy, is there a website separate from Cooper Hurley’s site? I know Cooper Hurley is probably cooperhurley.com, on Google, on all the social media, everybody can find Cooper Hurley, we’ll backlink that, but for the CMO Academy, do you take non-law-firm workers?

There are some in there, yeah, there are some in there, you go to theCMOacademy.com if you’re interested, or Google it, we’re on LinkedIn too.

And if somebody wants to listen to you live, do you have any upcoming speaking presentations this year, at any conferences? I don’t know if you have any lined up, or some you anticipate?

Sure, I will be at the PILMA Super Summit in May, in San Antonio, Texas, I’m going to be talking million-dollar relationships and how to build an attorney referral system, and on the last day I’ll be speaking again on building a marketing action plan, not a marketing plan, a marketing action plan, that’s my next one. And I believe I’ve been volunteered, I’ll be speaking at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing in August to do an ignite talk, about a five-minute presentation on a hot topic.

Amazing, well, I’m actually going to be at Fireproof in Chicago during that conference, I really wanted to go because I’ve gotten to know Gyi and think he’s an amazing person, but Miles and Whitney are both going to be at Lunch Hour Legal, so they’ll be able to connect with you, I’m really excited about that. All right, well, this has been an amazing discussion, Cassidy, thank you so much for being with us.

Absolutely, thank you so much for having me.

All right, and thank y’all for watching and or listening, this has been a great discussion on the world of marketing and the legal world. Anything you may want to know about Cassidy, she writes a lot on LinkedIn, she has the CMO Academy website, and you can also look into Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers, a great injury law firm up in Virginia, if you ever need an attorney in that area. Thank you for listening, this has been a great episode of the Overruled podcast, brought to you by the Scott Vicknair Law Firm, we look forward to talking to you next time.

Scott Vicknair, injury attorneys, we fight for the win.

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